Creative Entrepreneurship: How Atlantic Agency Is Redefining Work

Episode 34 · 2 months ago

Creative Entrepreneurship: How Atlantic Agency Is Redefining Work


Sure you think about it: striking out on your own, building an agency that you want to work in as a creative, and shaping a vibrant and healthy work culture that is defined by purpose. But what does it take and what are the challenges? The rewards? Our guests today did just that after spending successful careers at some of the top agencies in the business. And they are building their agency…. from a boat in Brooklyn, NY.

João Coutinho and Marco Pupo have launched Atlantic-New York: a new, creative-lead agency working with brands like Prime Video and Yahoo. They have accomplished so much in their short tenure at the helm and they came to share their journey with us.

We discuss:

  • The evolution of their partnership and their international careers
  • Their genesis story of how they made the leap to start their own shop
  • The new agency- client relationship and pitch process they are working with
  • The future of the agency model and the challenges of entrepreneurship

We're listening to brand side, a podcast where creative and marketing leaders discussed topics like storytelling, brand marketing and creative work. Joined the world's best brandson agencies for insights that help you stay creative at scale. This is brand side by the creative automation company SELTRA. Welcome back to brand side. My name is Christine and today I'm talking to not only fantastic creatives, but they are my dear friends, Manico and continue. They are multi award winning creative leaders that, after a pretty sellar career leading creative department said everywhere, from gray and Ogilvy and VML Yn r and more, they decided to found their own creative shop and, out of all places, this shop is actually on a ship in Brooklyn. Welcome to the show. I'm very excited to have you. Thank you, Christine. Thank you, Christine. So Um we'll be discussing everything from creative entrepreneurship to Um, your latest work for prime video, and then, of course, the future of the agency model and what's what's up with that Um. But before we get into your stories, I just wanted to kind of Um reminisce on a on a very special moment in my career when I was job hunting in New York City. Um, I was here for three months and a tourist visa and I remember sending so many cold emails to creative directors and like them, where it probably just went to the junk folder and nobody ever replied. You Two did, and you took a meeting with me. I remember US meeting one day, um after work and just like getting a sort of a low down of what's happening in the UM agency world and creative industry. So to me it really shows character and I and I haven't forgotten that. So I just wanted to kind of tell that story also to the audience. But with that, Um, how did you two meet? How did you start working together? Back in the day, we met back in Brazil. So joy is from Portugal, I am from Brazil, Um, and draw was living in Sao Paulo for a few years and then we actually ended up like meeting at Ogilvy in Brazil. We were like sitting back to back. Basically, we were not not partners at the time, but then after a few months, Um, we actually, you know, there was like a you know, a shifting the agency and then we started working together and then from there it's been what ten more? Ten years, right, ten years. Yeah, I moved to Brazilian two thousand and eleven to work at Ogilvy and, you know, and I think you jumped into thousand twelve, right, mark. I think it was, yeah, around that, and it was like Eastern Chemistry. You know, Mark was working with Augustine, which is a Uruguayan. Uh, that now is he does like, I don't think he works in advertising anymore. It was it does like like being or something. He wrote a cool it's really cool. Yeah, and then we used to see it like across, you know, and then we started doing like project on the side, and then, you know, Ogilvie was agency of the year into thousand and thirteen and we helped with with some work and then we you know, we got offers from some places, from the US, and in terms of position and salary, gray was the worst offer that we got. But we we had really good chemistry, you know, with with the guys that were hiring us, and it was an agency that you could feel, you know, that it has everything ready, you know, to to take off. You know, it was it was already like a going really well, like the agency we could see the it wasn't like quite there like yet as the full potential, but the agency we felt that the it was getting into like a really good momentum when...

...we when we joined exactly, they did the trade baby, which didn't win awards, but it was a very like pop culture campaign. The directive ads. That one tons off awards. That was amazing. We didn't work for that account, but we worked for cannon. That we're doing like really good, really good work, and then it's, I think, you know, when all the stars are aligned. You know, that was our time at grade. Everything that could happen well happened well, you know, like all the opports we have, like all the opportunities. Things went really, really, really well for us there, and that's a and it's a great lesson of like whenever you have the opportunity to choose the creative potential over numbers and salary, that's something that you you should definitely do in this industry and now later in your career. You know, you you worked together for a very long time and then you split your partnership for a while. Both of you went on to lead creative teams at different agencies. What made you join forces again? Or was that always the plan? It was always the plan, um, but, you know, because we have families, we have kids, you know, and like and we always like to take risks, you know. But and it was this was, you know, starting. There's there's a lot of people that either start their their companies because they're like, okay, this is one day, I will do this, I will quit. In our case, we were both let go during covid you know. So mark was let go in March, I was let going in August and I remember Marco called me immediately when it was like and it was the first time that happened in our careers, which was like very brutal, you know, when when that happened to us, but at the same time was like a sensasion of relief because we weren't enjoying we just weren't enjoying working on like the corporate world. You know, we announced on Thanksgiving twenty twenty that we were starting Atlantic, but we only start operating, you know, we had the website, the company was already, you know, legal and like Um operating in January twenty one, which is like not even to not even two years, one year, and like ten months around ten month ago. It's it's it's been great seeing you build and grow your agency and I've seen your being on a hiring spree and bringing more people on board and it's kind of like grown from this two person small operation to an actual agency, which is so great to see. Um, when we started talking about getting you guys on the podcast, I remember you saying yes, but can we please record um in sometime mid September because we're working on this huge project, and I'm guessing that project is now out. Was it the prime video campaign that you were working on? It was, it was definitely one of them. Yeah, talk to me about the campaign. Sure, yeah, no, this, uh, this, this relationship started, Um, I believe it was early April. He came through like a connection of of ours, Lama sears, which is he's a creative guy who is on the client side now. He's doing really like a really great job at Amazon Um, and he, I think he wanted to experiment with with with, you know, different agencies. I think they were working with a very big, famous agency and I think they were like hey, can we can we experiment with a different model, and then we did like a quick sprint like a six week sprint with them just to see if the chemistry was there, like almost like it was for us, like we looked back and said this is the bright way for for a pitch to happen. They paid us. It was very like, you know, it was a very respectable process. They were really getting to know us and we were getting to know them. So we did that for...

...six weeks on this project that we end up like launching. Ended up like launching this week actually. So it's Um it started like as a six week project and then we worked the whole summer until now, like launching Thursday night football for for prime video. So basically, Thursday night football is now exclusive on prime video. You can only watch that on Thursdays on prime video, and they needed to communicate basically to the whole country about that, you know. And then we did like a lot of work, from TV commercials to all the way to some so like even some social activation that we did. That we launched the ball, which was probably that's the one that we're talking about. That's the one you saw it so far right. Yeah, that's definitely the one that's making waves. It was inspired on the on the Amazon smile you know, and it and it was an idea that, you know, game from Leo. You know, Leo shares with as. I have this idea, you know, and let's, let's, you know, make this idea together. And they didn't have like the strategy and the concept and everything. We created everything and we created, you know, but the idea of having a ball inspired on the Amazon smile was there already, you know. Um, and credit to Leo, is like an amazing, you know, like force of nature, like he's on the client side, is super creative, all supporting, pushing, pushing, pushing, Um, and and then we created like this concept, which is the prime night of football, you know, because you know, it's the prime video and we want to help elevate Thursdays, which were the ugly duckling off like the the the NFL Games, you know, and we want to elevate this night to the to the prime night of football, you know. And they and they bought this concept, bought the strategy. Then we we produced three or four commercials, you know, big production with pretty birth. We made the ball with Wilson. Wilson is the partner, you know. We, we and the NFL, you know, three quarterbacks you know, the most famous quarterbacks now just in Herbert, Matthew Stafford, which is super bowl winner this year, and Russell Wilson. We need a campaign with them. They help, you know, with the with the stunt, you know, like playing with the ball and fans were like, Oh, this is real, is not this real? You know, and and like now we're discussing, you know, to you know, start thinking about stretches for next season, you know, like other projects over there. Yeah, whenever you're able to break that cultural barrier. And you know, I saw this the football um all over the news. It's like then you know you're onto something. And so Um, when it comes to Atlantic, how do you see your offering and what what makes it unique from all of the other indie players out there or even the holding companies? Yeah, like this is like the constant, you know, discussion that I think. I'm pretty sure, like every agency has um. I think what we try to do Um, we have a philosophy that is, you know, we called like the countercurrent approach to everything. It's like, basically it's an exercise that we do of like seeing where everything is going on on purpose. We we we explore, you know, the other way. That comes like from like when we're doing strategic work for clients, like how do we find a way to position the brands, you know, you know, in a in a different space, like there's a whole Um strategy mode that we're developing with our two strategists. Um. It's like a very creative way of doing strategy, which which we think is super cool, like it's it's a lot more storytelling than like, you know, triangles and circles on attack. That philosophy we apply and, you know, we question every single...

...part of every every every step of the process. Basically, like how how do we engage in pitches, for example, like when we did like the prime video thing, you know, initially was it was a pitch, like, but how do you actually have conversations? How do you You keep yourself firm to your beliefs and saying we want to work with you. Probably you want to work with us because you you reached out. So, like how do we find a way that works for us as well, not not being always like serving, serving, serving, saying yes, yes, yes, but like how do you keep your beliefs really, you know, happening? It's it's like it's like a trial right, you know, like on these platforms, you try the platform, you know, Um, and and then you see, you know, obviously in this case, they bays. You know, like what what we're trying to do is like, you know, do a project four weeks, with US six weeks. You know, like it's like kind of like and they and you see, if you like, let's do more projects. If you don't like, you know, uh, some maybe maybe in another in another time. You know, but it's like this pitch, you know, it's something that destroys completely agencies, you know, like it's the huge cause of burnout, burnout. You know, people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on pitches. They don't care about the clients that they're currently clients to be investing on pitches. It's a wrong system people, you know, there's articles coming out, you know, like people are there's some things in the industry that are just wrong, you know. And and and like if you do a pitch, one is free, it's obviously and but like it's like getting married without having living lived together, you know. And like what what we're proposing is, like let's live together, you know, for like four to six weeks. Let's see if we like each other and then you maybe we can marry. You know, no, so, yeah, so I think you already both touched upon how you see the agency client relationship involving Um and how you're responding to that. Is there anything else that you think is is sort of aside from pitching, is broken in the current system of how most operate and how would you fix it? Well, there's a lot of a lot of things that are broken right. Um, there's a lot of good things coming already, like we admire a lot of new agencies. We don't pretend that we are the best. We we have all the you know, even like that, is a level of respect that was lost between agencies. Like you know, everything became so corporate, so big and full of bullshit, to be honest, that the human, the human level, the human connections were lost right between clients and agencies as well. It became like so, oh, these agencies just trying to make as much money as they can on my campaign. I don't really trust them. The agency is always complaining about the clients as well, and I think, like what you're seeing now is a lot of people tired of that, like, especially, like very senior creative strategists, every every in every role of agencies coming out and doing their own things, like smaller, like just just that is a massive change to the industry already. I think that will solve a lot of a lot of what's broken, because it's like human connections again, you know, like it's people who actually have beliefs. UH, they will be able to stand up for their own, you know, the things that they believe on, and by doing that, well, you know, burnout, for example, can can be solved, because what's happening with burnout right now? It's like agencies putting time sheet, selling, selling hours right, and then like, okay, I have this team here that I hired. The more projects I put on that team, the better, right.

That's how the model works and the money works. And then like people are out of a sudden, like they're working on ten different projects. They don't even know why they're working on so many things, because it doesn't really make any sense. Clients think that they're paying for one talent when they're in fact, you know, paying yes, they're paying a hundred. Sorry, they think that they're paying, you know, a lot more. They're getting a lot less, but they in fact, they're, you know, paying of a team, getting ten percent of that team, because that team is being spreading in five different clients and and struggling. So everyone is losing right the only people who are who are actually benefiting from this, we don't even know who they are. Basically, it's like some someone sitting on a really high board of of of networks. And I think the moment um smaller agencies are coming. They're saying, okay, I can actually control the amount of work I put into into one or one person, because it's already super profitable. Still. You know, I think this is the thing that we're seeing, like it's still like a very profitable industry if you actually just do it the right way, you know. So this frustration that all the industry is over, there's no money, no more, no money anymore. We think it's not true, like it's yes, it's you don't do like one piece of work and then you make two million dollars in year outs. It's like yeah, you you have to make the whole campaign and it's like it's a lot of work. But there's still like, you know, we are the ones now making the scopes and everything, and we see how you can actually have a mother where like people don't work like crazy, they do a very fair amount of work, they get paid well, the agency still profits. The clients feel like that they're paying for a team, that they're actually using that team, they know who the team is. That was solved by itself. If it's well done and if everyone is being firmed with what we want with the industry, that solves a lot of the issues, from burnout to client uh an agency relationships that are built like there's no trust anymore in in either side. Like you know, everyone is like wow, but you know, are you really giving me this percentage that you're you're selling me? You know, a lot of that comes out when it's a business of people and like with people instead of a massive corporation with another massive corporation, like you know. Anyway, there's I can, I can speak like twenty hours about that, but probably no one, nobody cares. I think run out, burn out, is something that worries us a lot, you know, and we've been talking with one of our strategies, you know, to have an open space to talk about mental health, you know, which is you're from Europe. I'm from Europe, as well, and there's like a bigger stigma there, you know. You know, if you say that you're doing therapy, you know, like people, you know, get super worried. But there's still a lot of Um stigma around mental health, you know, and we want to create the space. We want to protect people from from burnout, like we try to avoid it all costs to work on weekends or late nights, you know, and like have the rule of not sending emails or calling people after uh, you know, five thirty, six PM. You know, it happens. Sometimes needs to be an exception, not the rule. What happened now in the agency is that the exception became the rule, you know. So we need to be really, really, like if we have like, if we're like delivering a campaign or something, you know, will have to work probably Um, you know, and one extra or a couple of extra hours, you know, but it's it needs to be really the exception, you know. And one thing that Um, someone said,...

...which was like all agencies start the same, you know, but then they all be start completely different with we want to be different, and then they become the same, you know, and it's it's a constant reminder that we keep you know, when we are putting two into the wall and have to make hard decisions, you know, we always what would like double PP or Omnicom or I pg. Do you know in this situation and what is the right I don't. It doesn't mean that they all do wrong things. It doesn't mean that, but it's like there's like lots of group things in the system that they don't fix, you know, and we it's not that we're like the only agency trying to do that. There's a lot of agencies trying to do that, you know, um independent and some big ones that are really trying to do to do things the right way. You know, I think maybe the issue is also that if we well, first of all, we all know that it's the holding company that's kind of like squeezing the juice because they need to be profitable because their public companies and they answer to shareholders and that's their business model. But on the other side too, it's like, if we look at the fragmentation of media, and it's really exploded the amount of places that brands need to be present and tell their story and have their Um and and have their ads and creative run. And so now all of a sudden we're in a situation where these brands, they don't have also like they don't have more money to spend, like budgets aren't going up the same space pace that Um, all these like creative channels are, and so then they're also asking more and more of their agency partners and at the same time it's the holding company saying no, we need to be more efficient. But at the end of the day, Um, we're all saying we're selling creative work and creative I believe efficiency is the enemy of creative work, because you cannot force great thinking and great creative ideas. And so we're kind of in this like push pool. Um. But speaking of holding companies, you are part of one, albeit it's very different, and so you're you're part of buy the network, right, and so talk to me how that business model and collaboration is different from the well, dinosaurs, for a lack of a better word. Yeah, I think you know, we we always like first first of all, I think when we say, when we talk about bigger, the big networks, we we always like, you know, it's it was through them that we actually got our careers, where where we got so like we we have tons of, you know, uh, tons of things to be thankful for for those companies. There's many things that are wrong with them, you know, and we talk about all of them. We don't, you know, give them any easy but, you know, just to just to be clear, like we it's not that we hate or like we want hey, now, we want to destroy everything, like you know, there's gonna be space for them, but we want to do something different. We buy the network. I think what we what we we're very interested about when pair Para Patterson is the guy who actually founded that this network. So what it is is, like it's a network of independent agencies. It's like boutique agencies like us. I think we're one of the smallest ones, like they're more like middle like they. We have like ten people right now on staff, like they. You know, there's some agencies who have like fifty. They're like small, small, independent agencies. And the difference is the the network is not there's no financial commitment at all, you know, there it's it's literally a group of independent agencies that get together to work if it makes sense. If, like, for example, Atlantic is an agency based in New York. Right we do get some projects outside. We do get some global projects, but if we feel like that, we need a team, let's say in Australia, one in London, one in Africa.

We would not be able to do that ourselves necessarily so quickly, but because we have a network of independent agencies that is already pre selected, we already have like WHATSAPP group with all the agency leaders. We can exchange ideas. Say Hey, we have we have this, this project that came through. Our clients is a global project. They're looking for a global scope. Can we put together a global team between our agencies, you know, and then we can actually build a global team. Let's say, if if we bring the client is it is it still like lad by Atlantic, but we start putting different teams underneath us and then we can just like do the financials within the network. Any clients only pay pay for this big network when it makes sense, only when when they actually need this network, is when they actually have to pay for it, which is very interesting and it's like also another thing is like all companies. They're like they're they're their creative lad companies, which were like selected by pair Um. So there's a level as well of like what type of work that we engage. Like what? What? What are the things that we want to we want to do? Are we perfect? No, like, I think we're all figuring out is a new model and making tons of mistakes and learning with mistakes. But it's creatives at the helm. You know, it's creatives who are doing the calls and like these. You know, your intendment. All the business that we have been working and all the business that we brought was a hundred percent through our creative connections. You know, we didn't have investors, we didn't have like account people working helping us, you know, Um, and and it was all all the business that we brought. It was like through our the reputation and the and the connections we we built through our careers. You know, we just hired a managing director. She's on maternity to leave. You know, we we we hired two for one, Um and but and, you know, and she she started, uh in June. She just said the baby. We worked together at great she on on a week. She already changed the agency, you know, like she's like support creative words. It's like like that makes really really Barbosa. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, Um, on this path of entrepreneurship that you both are on now and, like you mentioned, you started this agency at the height of the pandemic. Um, was there something in the process that surprised you that you weren't expecting? I mean, everybody knows when you start your own thing, it's a lot of grind. It's hard in the beginning. Um, you're kind of like you have to wear like seventeen different hats. Um, your your own HR, your your own talent Um operations as well. But is there something that really surprised you in the process? I think everything that surprised that. It's like we need like until like a few months ago, we were like doing all payments, you know, sending checks on the mail, taking care of we were doing basically everything, you know, like because up until November it's it was just me and Marco and a network of freelancers, you know, and now we have we are more like like a professional agency with benefits, with paycheck, Pay Roll and, you know, helping Sharans, uh everything, you know, and then we have a platform, you know, like a very easy platform that we worked with and and things are easy. But before that, you know, we're junior CEOS, you know, like we're like learning this profession, you know, like it's, it's, it's you get scared. You get scared sometimes, you know, because you don't know if making the right decision, like for us having to make, and this... a funny story, we were invited in our first week of existence by a big tech brands that invited us and we were up against like big agencies, you know, and we had one week of existing. We put together a team, you know, we presented work and we we made the scope mark and I and we were four times more expensive and they wanted to work with us, but they were like, guys, man, it's impossible, you know, like they really like to work, they love the Vibe, you know, and like we were sad for like three months right mark, because it was like a great opportunity of like starting with like this account. But like, you know, you learned, you know, like uh, and now, you know, susie helps us a lot, you know, with all the process stuff, but we now we can do golds, you know, we know exactly, you know, how to be very assertive in things. But like we have rate cards. We you know, we're trying to find like the best way to you know, like we said, like to reinvent the pitch process. You know, we offer something to the clients, you know, but also something that it's fair for us as well. You know that we don't none of the parts loose time, you know. So so so things are like more like Taylor to to succeed in in both parts and not having like an agency that it's like, Um, you know, a subservient, you know, executioner, let's say. You know, like we're never gonna be that that part of the business. You know, did you have a particular moment um in your Um, in the existence of the agency that made you feel like, okay, now we've made it, Um, it actually feels like it has a future. This is an actual agency versus just like, you know, try and make that happen. Yeah, well, there's I think the we we we got super lucky, to be honest, that when we launched with no clients, no investors, just literally row and I we put our own money in it, you know, and we started like already getting like some some pretty like significant invitations to pitches and I think we made tons of mistakes in the beginning, tons, um. I think now we feel like oh we we got it now. So I think this year was okay. We made it like as we have like, you know, brands that we we teamed up like, you know, Yahoo, twitter, prime video, you know, we we did a lot of Um, we somehow like we got into like this love, love from tech brands. I think they we didn't. We didn't. We were never like, it's funny, like we never picked up the phone to call anyone. It was literally every week there was something, you know, a connection. I think we, you know, we feel like very lucky that people actually remember US recommend us. People are putting their names in front of our agency recommending us, which like for us, like it's it's heaven, you know, when we when that happens, because it you know, obviously we get super nervous when someone puts us as a name and then like you're doing like a million dollars scope and say, Oh my God, what if, like we say, I don't want to burn that people forever. You know. So, but I think we, we, we feel like that this is the year that is making us and it's already our first year. Basically. You know that last year it was year zero. You know, year zero, we had investors that wanted to invest, you know, but we we decide like we we left to corporate world to be independent, to be able to choose. You know, I want to work with this person, I want to work with this brand that I love. You know, I don't want to work with red flags. You know, I don't want to.

We don't want to work with with, you know, you know people or or companies that are not doing the right thing. You know, of course we'll make mistakes, we'll keep making mistakes, you know, but I think, like last year was years zero. I would say that when we made the project for Yahoo, you know, uh, and the NBA for the All Star game, and we already had a creative team. You know that that made a huge difference. When we we hired, you know, we have those butterflies on the on the on the valley. We we like last year in the like, probably like around this time, we could already have hired someone, but we were like afraid, you know, to make that commitment. When we hired Elizabeth and Jessica, that the first creative team we hired and it changed completely the agency, you know, like that it was like, okay, this is an agency, this is not a team. Of Two guys, you know, like Um and then Gabby John, you know, and then we did the project for Yahoo. But I think I had a clique. You know. I was telling Marco because this prime video production we went to L A and it was like six or eight days of shoots that they split in two weeks. So I covered the first week and Marco covered second, and I remember going on. I took a taxi from the airports to the hotel and I was like I'm in L A, you know, producing like this huge campaign for Amazon Prime Video. We like celebrity football players and like, and it's our agency, you know, like in that moment was like you you're so like working so much that you don't realize, you know, like and we're too immigrants. We were, you know, we've been in New York for nine years. But like it's it's Um, it's something that's, you know, ah, those little moments that are like Oh, this is this is really amazing. And then, of course we have all our anxieties, you know, of like when you start carrying people, you know, you get you get anxious, you know, because you know you have life depending on you, you know, and like, uh, there's a beauty on it as well, you know, trying to help these people, like Susie, when we hire her, she was like, let's build the position that you want, you know, or managing direct let's let's design the position you want. You know, let's you're going to help us build this agency with you, you know, so let us let us know what you want. You know, let's let's let's you know, we don't have these and take it. You know, we're even like with junior people. Let's let's find something that that adapts better to people. You know, I think one thing that we say, like it's we were trying to buy to to build a company that adapts around people instead of people having to adapt to a company. You know, it's IT'S A it's subtle way of doing things. Obviously it works when you're small. We have no idea, like if we were like a hundred people, if that would still work. But like we tend people. Everyone has their own little, you know, bucket and and we try as much as possible to readapt around around our our employees. You know. So what's next for the agency? What's Your Future Vision? Because, you know, when I've I've talked to a lot of different agency leaders like, for example, Um Raoul Mondru, who co founded our Xm creative he um, in his interview, told me that no, like he has no desire like becoming a huge agency. He on purpose keeps it small. He just wants to do great work, Um and. But for you, is the do you want to grow this into a big agency? Are you ultimately looking to maybe grow something that could be acquired by a bigger company, or is your focus just the creative work first? Like, WHAT'S THE VISION? I would say that our main goal is to be happy and make people the work with US happy. That's, you know,...

...our main you know, and you know we never had like, Oh, let's open ten offices and higher four people. It's not our goal. If it happens, it's because it was meant to happen, you know, but it's we we think that being small, you know, maybe grow up to like thirty people, you know, and these people can be spread out around the world. You know, uh, maybe it's like the right size. It depends on if, if we so far we've we've been working, you know, on project base, but we're very open to be a r you know, of of of brands. You know, it's it all depends. We don't we we really don't have that that goal of like growing, growing to be bought for shorten. No, you know that we're not doing this too so so, you know, we can retire that. Yeah, I think the size doesn't matter as well, like if it's ten, twenty, thirty, as long as we feel that we're happy, people are happy and their work is good, that's that's the size that we want. You know, we're really, we're really didn't start Atlantic to, Um, you know, to make money. You know, like I think happiness. Of course, money is important, you know, but it's it comes second. It doesn't come first. You know, if you're if you're going to open a second office in the in the future, will will it also be on a ship? Does it need to be a city with a marina? Uh, that's a good question. Um, we we, it's like we're we're evolving as well, like what we even like the what the what the boat is? When we first started, like Oh, this is the actual office, office, and then like, as we we grew, like just like more people. We're hiring a lot of people from other cities. You know, there's a lot of people spread around. So the boat is becoming more and more like a play that we go to have certain meetings, like we we go, we're going Um, after this this recording, we're going to go there to do like just a strategy session for the agency, like what we how we're going to evolve our model. So I think the it's it's more of a space for meetings, for bringing clients, doing like some sessions, creative sessions, than an actual office. And I think the agency, I don't know, we've we we don't have like an official word on that, but I think we're feeling more and more the Atlantic is an international agency. You know, we're we're flying to Sweden in two weeks to to work on a on a really, really, really interesting project there, which, you know, we were not expecting, but it came. We spoke and it was like, oh, it's really cool project, let's do it. We're doing the campaign for for twitter. You know, for a lot time. I don't know if if we mentioned already it was. It started as a global campaign. Than Elon Musk decided to by tweeter. They freeze everything and now it's uh, we just had the kickoff, the production kickoff beating this week. It's gonna be a lot them campaign, amazing client ising partner. Uh, this will be like the first of many, for sure. You know, like we did a project, we did the project for for Portugal, you know, for for a biggest retail company there that they have like the own, like the biggest supermarkets in Poland and in Colombia and, you know, we were going to production and we really like these clients and like working with brands, like with clients from Europe. It's a little tough for us, you know, because our staff is here and, like the budgets there are pretty smaller, you know, yeah, but we really like these clients and they were like really great partners, but then the war exploded and their main, you know, source of income is in Poland and they had to you know, you know, the most of the refugees from Ukraine...

...go to work on their supermarkets, you know, and they teach them, uh, you know, they house them. You know, they are they these clients are so humble that they don't, you know, they don't break, they don't say anything about the like the really like social thing that they do. You know, Um, but we were like starting production and it was it went on pause because of the world. You know, it was. Yeah, they did the right thing, to be honest, right shifting the money to like what actually matters in that case, M and even not making that into a PR story but, moreover, just doing that because it's the right thing. That's pretty admirable. Um, I've got one last question for both of you before I let you go. So, if you were to work on something completely different, Um that's not advertising, what would you do or have done? Is Uh? Jean Jean has a side career he doesn't like to talk about. So I always started to talk about for him. I need. I lived in I worked, working three three years, and I started like the Jay, like parties and stuff, but then, you know, and then I went back to Lisbon and you know, I started like playing more more often. But then when I moved to Brazil and with when when my when the twins, my older kids, were born, you know, an international career taking off, it was impossible to you know, I still buy music. I recorded a session like a couple of weeks ago. But responding, I wouldn't do the Dja as as a profession. I would love to work on like uh, to have like a hotel or like, you know, uh, something related with tourism, you know, with that's that's something I would I would like to do. Marco has that, you know, because he already bought a house in an upstate. The RBNB is this, this house, you know, and it's because you're you're in touch with the when people want to relax and they're happy, you know, like you, that's the contact right with the with the with the good side, the good human side, you know, like lodging right, not not so much like a restaurant, because you get some like really angry people, you know, but but but having something related with like lodging and tourism. I would love that. You know, Michael, what about you? I would probably like I am I like to do a lot of things, like many people. Obviously not not. Don't feel special for that, but I think the more and more I'm like going back to like something that I love, I used to love to do when I was a child, which is like dealing with wood, you know, I when I was a kid, I one day I asked my dad, like, Oh, can I actually buy some tools? And we went and bought some wools and I was like building all these projects with with wood at home. Never I never like really took it forward. I think somehow I believe that I could never like make a living out of that. But like in the pendent, during the pandemic, I did a lot of you know, as you was saying, like we we both got laid off during the pandemic and I had plenty of time. Nobody I didn't even want to talk about hiring or whatever. So I was like I said, you know what, like I'm I'm in the middle of the woods, I'm gonna I'm gonna just like start doing wood, woodwork, and I loved it, so maybe I'll probably do that. I'm going to sell the agency my half in two years and I'll do that strong. There you go. You have to have your creative outlets even working full time in in in a creative industry. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to join brand side. We'll be linking Atlantic and all that good stuff into the episode description. But if we have um brand marketers listening, Um, where can they get in touch with you? Do you have... email address where they can shoot a note if they want to work with you or talk a little bit more about collaborating? Sure, yeah, you can email us, Um Marco at Atlantic Dash New York dot com. It's Uh all spelled out or dual at Atlantic Dash New York dot com. or Ah our. Our hello email is called Ahai, you know, like very, like very time at Atlantic, of course. Yeah, we try to limit the amount of like maritime analogies that we do. How the phrase. It gets very cheesy. Great, Um and and thank you all at home for listening to brandside. If you like what you heard, maybe you'll give us those five stars. Um, maybe even a little review. I wouldn't mind that at all. And until next time. My name is Christine and thank you for listening. Thank you so much for same, Peter. You've been listening to brand's side by the creative automation company SELTRA. If you like the show, we'd love a rating and review, and don't forget to follow wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time.

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